Taking Time Off to Plan for a More Conscious Career with Annie Jameson (Ep 27)
When you take a leap, there’s a lot of uncertainty. For today’s guest, that uncertainty revolves around figuring out how to serve in a leadership role without being full-time, allowing more time for other parts of life and being a mother of two, and navigating a world where conversations around better professional and personal balance are happening but actual change seems slow to come.
In this episode, I’m chatting with Annie Jameson about taking a leap that involved leaving a full-time career for a territory unknown. Annie is sharing about how she has taken this time to better understand herself and her values, the importance of structure and support when you’re exploring your options on a career break, and why patience, with yourself and the process and the larger working world, goes a long way.
In this episode, you’ll learn...
About Annie’s time at Vistaprint and what lead to her leaving [02:26]
Why her exit from Vistaprint was gradual and how her passion for diversity and inclusion played a role [07:26]
How Annie approached balance after leaving her full-time job [10:36]
How having more alone time allowed her to reflect on her values [15:18]
How exploring is allowing her to figure out the balance that is right for her [17:34]
Mini coaching session with Annie [20:55]
Why it’s important to Annie that more flexible working opportunities exist [23:43]
The pressure of feeling like you have to always know “what’s next” [25:05]
The advice Annie would give to a mentee in her situation [29:34]
The importance of patience and not over-thinking [30:32]
The importance of having a plan, some structure, and support network to help navigate your new day-to-day life [35:35]
About the role model exercise that I recommend to clients [37:41]
What Annie wishes she knew before she took her leap [39:17]
The surprising and rewarding moments Annie has experience [40:03]
Annie’s advice for someone taking a leap
The podcast that Annie is launching [44:38]
If you’re considering your own courageous career leap, be sure to tune into this episode.
Standing at your own crossroads and ready to get clear on your direction? Apply for my Catalyst Coaching Program today!
I want you to know about my new free change planner. This planner is for you if you'd like to make a significant change in life or work, but you're feeling kind of stuck. My change planner will help you get the clarity you need to take your next steps. Inside, I'll show you how to understand what you really want and why it's important, how to face your fears constructively so they don't hold you back, and this planner also has a scenario cruncher. I hope you get all possible scenarios out of your head so you can find the right one for you!
Connect with Lisa
Connect with Annie
Annie’s Bio:
Annie has been many "things"—a mother, a mentor, a leader, a coach, partner, wife, friend, daughter, sister, CIMA qualified, D&I advocate, analytical expert, finance professional. What she cares about most and what ties all these pieces together is how we interact, show up and encourage each other as human beings and that's where her focus is in life.
Links mentioned in this episode…
Susan Cain’s Bittersweet: How Sorrow And Longing Make Us Whole
Transcript of Episode 27: Taking Time Off to Plan for a More Conscious Career with Annie Jameson
Lisa Hoashi:
Welcome to Leap Like Me. If you can't shake the feeling that you're not on the right path, if you feel called to change things up but don't know how to being, you're in the right place. I'm your host, Lisa Hoashi, and my specialty is coaching people at those crossroads moments in life when you feel called to take a new direction. Sometimes that means taking a leap. I wanted to share practical advice and inspiration for your leaps, and how to keep going after your dreams in a challenging world. This season we're talking all about career leaps. Come along for the conversation.
Lisa Hoashi:
Hello, this is Lisa Hoashi and welcome to Leap Like Me. Our guest today is Annie Jameson. She's a business leader, mentor, and mother of two based in Barcelona. She's an analytical expert, finance professional, and diversity and inclusion advocate who until recently was at the global ecommerce company VistaPrint. After 10 years with the company, Annie decided it was time to leave and explore some new paths. Today we talk about her leave, what was behind it personally and professionally. And since Annie is still currently in the middle of her leave, we'll also do some coaching around what she's navigating today. A warm welcome to Annie Jameson. Hello Annie.
Annie Jameson:
Hello Lisa, great to be here.
Lisa Hoashi:
Yeah, so glad to have you here.
Lisa Hoashi:
After 10 years, you decided to leave VistaPrint, and I wonder if you would start us off with talking about your evolution of your career there, and how it led you up to today?
Annie Jameson:
Okay, yeah sure. 10 years was a long time, and I guess like many companies today VistaPrint evolved a lot in that time, and I felt like I worked for many different companies during that time with different cultures. I had different roles. And what led me up to leaving, I mean I guess 10 years is a good period of time within place, even with different cultures. But I started in that company within finance, and then it was about four years ago that I moved to pricing. And my role then kind of exploded. So I started managing a team of three. And before I left, that was a team of 40 people.
Annie Jameson:
I loved the team, but it was a lot of growth in quite a short period of time. I also had twin boys seven years ago, which was obviously a big life change, and they were also premature so they had a lot of health problems in the beginning. And I think I felt like I was running this very fast pace of life for a long time. And then I think it was around the beginning of 2021, obviously we had COVID in this time, and I know it's been a period of reflection for so many people. So yeah, I guess for me working from home still in this crazy rhythm, a lot of time in Zoom, but with a slightly different reflection balance I think because of working from home. I felt that a lot of the growth happened without a huge amount of consciousness, and it was like a realization of that for me. I think I'm a person who lives with consciousness, or have a consciousness of being conscious, and I don't take that level of growth lightly.
Annie Jameson:
So I think I just started to have these reflection points that something about the balance was a bit off in my life. I really loved the team, but for me managing people is a very important dedication I guess. And so I didn't assume more is always better, and I wanted to do it in a certain way. And so that growth I think meant I felt very squeezed to manage in the way I wanted. And then also having kids, I mean VistaPrint was a very flexible place for having kids and being able to pick them up from school and pieces like that, but of course if you have a big team how you switch your mind off I think can impact your time with your kids as well.
Annie Jameson:
So, in summary I think I just reached this point where I felt that the balance was a bit off, and I can get into more detail on why, but that kind of led me to the decision to ultimately leave, which was a long process.
Lisa Hoashi:
It sounds like within that 10 years you had navigated becoming a mother, which is a moment also where you really start to see things are in a different balance to where they were before, right?
Annie Jameson:
Definitely.
Lisa Hoashi:
And so you had to navigate that. And then you went on a little bit longer, and it sounds like it's really been the team, the size of the team and what the demands were around that, that led you to this final decision to leave?
Annie Jameson:
Yeah. I guess the size of the team and then I guess maybe it depends a bit on how you like to manage and whether that fits within a company culture as well. I think I said in the beginning, I saw many different cultures at VistaPrint and I think I fitted well with that for a long time. But I think there was maybe something that started to feel a bit off balance with my style of leadership as well, and maybe that's why I also felt a bit squeezed with that.
Annie Jameson:
And the other piece that you mentioned in my intro was around diversity and inclusion. I felt like I didn't have as much time for that, and that's something core to who I am. So I could bring out diversity and inclusion pieces within the team environment, but I'm also interested in doing that more broadly. So whether that be ... I mean I did a fair bit at VistaPrint within the way the company, within employee resource groups, organizing talks and breakfasts to talk about different elements of diversity. But also the space to think about that, because it's a very human topic, and you can have different instances in the workplace, but obviously it's bigger than a workplace, it's how we interact as people and in societies.
Annie Jameson:
And I felt like for me it's really important to think deeply about that and bring pieces outside of work as well. And just this feeling of being off balance, not having space to process any of these thoughts. Or how do I take these learnings wider? Because I worked in a place with a lot of privilege as well, so it's also you can do so much within an organization, but it's not reflective of the full world.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I mean would you describe, if we were to think about the months leading up to your decision, were there a couple of key moments that were like, "Hmm, I think that I really do need to leave?" Or do you feel like it was kind of this more gradual ...?
Annie Jameson:
A bit of both I guess. Why I'm hesitant is because it was the beginning of 2021 where I think conversations started happening around me leaving, and I didn't leave until October. So, 10 months felt quite gradual, or felt quite long. But yeah, I mean there were pivotal moments. One was about trying to find a different solution than me leaving. This is something I struggle a bit with, the concept of work or teams being a family. I felt that that became even more so during COVID as well, like my family live in another country. And the environment I had was quite close to family. And so that would be a very difficult thing to leave, no?
Annie Jameson:
And so I tried to have conversation about could I reshape my role somehow? Reduce the scope? I don't know, split the team up somehow or carve out pieces more formally for focusing more on diversity and inclusion? And so there were meetings where that was discussed, and that wasn't possible for various reasons, which I could understand. So I'd say that was obviously a pivotal moment, like, "I need to leave this team," which was very painful as well because I care a lot about them. Still do.
Annie Jameson:
So I'd say that was one. And then I did look for other roles within the company as well, but again for different reasons that wasn't working out, and that's something that I guess we might discuss. Is there a way of finding different types of roles when you've got a certain level of experience? Because I think I was looking for something a bit different in terms of recognizing the experience I could bring, but whether it be working part-time, or focusing slightly differently. Because sometimes it has felt to me, and looking at job adverts now, it's still a bit one size fits all. Everybody wants to work full-time, everybody wants to progress in the same way. Bigger is better.
Annie Jameson:
I'm generalizing, but there's still a lot of that about. Whereas I think conversations that people have a very different from that. And I think there's a general acceptance that people want a different balance in life. But when it comes to hard facts of what jobs you see out there, it's like how do you change that kind of landscape a bit? And I didn't get to that point within VistaPrint. And also after such a long period of discussing it, I felt like it was a good time to leave and take that time out to do that reflection, because of course in those 10 months my role was changing, I wasn't as full on by the end. But it still felt like when you're in so many Zoom meetings a day, can you fully take a step back to reflect? No, it's still a bit like autopilot and you need to do what you need to do to deliver the things in the day.
Annie Jameson:
So, yeah, it kind of felt the right time to take that time out to reflect.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So by that point that you actually left, what did your idea of balance for you, what did that mean?
Annie Jameson:
There's been different phases to it I think. Actually I was talking with a friend of mine this morning, we haven't spoken for a while, and he's ended up taking a sabbatical. It was a bit later than me, and so we're in different phases now. But we could share a bit of what we lived. And so the beginning part for me, the first couple of weeks ... well, I guess I had two things. One, my team at the time were laughing at me that I was going to do this, but I put a lot of things still in my calendar to do, because I felt like I didn't want to fall off this cliff, going from this pretty strict schedule to, "I can do whatever I want to today." Within a limit, because when you have kids it's not quite as [inaudible 00:11:18].
Lisa Hoashi:
Measured out.
Annie Jameson:
Yeah. But then I did more like time blocks. So it was like, "Okay, I'm going to do exercise these hours, this this day. I'm going to study Spanish these hours." So it's more to have a bit of a plan. But yeah, the first two weeks I just enjoyed the freedom. It was very liberating. And then I think I had a good balance because I studied, and then had various activities with the kids. But I think I went through different phases of frustration of was I having things as clear as I thought I should have by a certain point? And yeah, I could have a lot of ideas, but whether they felt viable I wasn't sure. I mean I have an interesting relationship with sleep as well, which influences a lot. I think driven by kids and when they sleep.
Annie Jameson:
So yeah, I felt like it was different phases on what the balance could be. I think I have a good idea of what I want it to be, but like I said, I'm just still figuring out what kind of opportunities exist out there to find this balance. And maybe you'd like to say a bit more with that, because I've kind of explored I guess two primary avenues. One is, like you hinted at in the beginning, consulting on a part-time basis or a short-term contract part-time and then being able to do other pieces outside of that. So whether it be studying, right now it's Spanish, but maybe it could be something else. Also doing more pieces around diversity and inclusion. I'm also trying to write more in that area and maybe do a podcast on that as well with some other topics. That's one avenue.
Annie Jameson:
So, with that it's whether these opportunities exist to facilitate that balance. And then another avenue I'm still looking at, because I think it's important to stay open to most things, or to keep an open mind, is the full-time avenue again but with that balance within the role. So, whether it be around values alignment, missions alignment, being able to have a focus on diversity and inclusion. I want to believe those companies and those opportunities can still exist.
Lisa Hoashi:
So, when you left, were you thinking of it as a sabbatical at that moment, of like, "I'm going to take a specific amount of time to rest and not drive anything forward for a little while?"
Annie Jameson:
Yes I did. I think the overarching thing was I would take ... because I had friends that asked, "How many months?" And I think I said, "Probably four to six months, but if it's a year I think I could be okay with it," something like that. But I think, like I said, I'd lived different phases, or also different days with it where I would look to see what jobs where out there, or maybe I'd just apply for one just to test the water a bit. I varied with it. The overarching thing I think was that, that I would take this time. But it's like a conditioning as well to work for so long.
Annie Jameson:
I mean my career in total is 20 years now, and I think the longest time I had out, well obviously for the kids, but that felt a bit different. But time out time out I think was three weeks between a job, which I think is more than most people.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Annie Jameson:
But still, three weeks in 20 years. Of course you have all the voices and they're like, "You're going to need to earn some money again," and these things know. So yeah, it was overarching. I think I had some months in my head, but still some moments maybe of doubt or going, "Maybe I should just apply for things and see what happens."
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). What have been some changes in yourself that you've already noticed just by taking this time?
Annie Jameson:
I thought a bit about it in terms of values, but I think I'm a person like I've always had my values quite clear. Maybe there's been some variation in the order of the top five, but I don't think the top five had changes. I think it's a typical thing as you get older that those values become even more important, or harder to budge on, kind of what you think is fine and what you don't think is fine in line with those values. And then I think other things I've discovered. I mean I'm also a person that I like to have time alone. But having so much time alone has made me reflect in a deeper way than I ever have before, and I think that's a lifelong journey.
Annie Jameson:
Obviously I figured some more things out these months, but if we're talking about who you are and why and where you've come from, I think that's like a constant discovery. But yeah, I think I know myself better. And then also thinking maybe who might be listening to this, I'd say that's not an easy process. I think it's a rewarding one in the end, but it's not comfortable always. So yeah, I've learnt to sit with myself a bit better.
Annie Jameson:
And then maybe the other things is around having the more focused time with the kids. Because again, they're in school so it's not like I've been with them more these months particularly, but I think when I'm with them I'm more with them, I have less distractions. And I discovered that I could enjoy going into the school to make their carnival costumes, which I never had time for before. But also maybe not so much inclination. But seeing how much they enjoyed it, and then being closer to their environment was a nice learning as well. I mean maybe they would have expected it, but yeah, it felt good.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), so being able to spend some more quality time with them, or a fuller presence with them.
Annie Jameson:
Yep.
Lisa Hoashi:
So, what is emerging for you right now? You mentioned a few avenues that you're exploring. What's become clearer to you about what it is that you really would like?
Annie Jameson:
Where I'm at right now, I did do a couple of projects these months working with friends' businesses. That was nice. I got back into Excel, I quite enjoyed that. My last role, being a leader of such a large team it was more in PowerPoint than Excel, so that was good and gave me a bit of purpose I would say. And I'm still studying Spanish three times a week and I want to carry that on for now, because that's been important to me in my life here. Again, I don't think I dedicated enough time to it before. And then the other thing I'm looking at, I'm quite close to signing a short-term contract. That will be an experiment for me as well. It will be part-time and three months, potentially longer, to really see how that balance works for me.
Annie Jameson:
The other thing I'm quite interested in, this might have come across, but within when I led this last team, I was very invested in the team and in them. And so working part-time, maybe being a bit further removed somehow, is also an experiment for me to see, "Okay, how does that differ? Can I do that? Can I draw a clearer line maybe?"
Annie Jameson:
So yeah, I'm looking at that. And then beyond that, well it could be a contract extension, it could be a contract somewhere else. I'm still open to full-time if I feel like that fit is right as well.
Annie Jameson:
Actually I was talking with this friend earlier because he said he's really enjoying the uncertainty. And I was like, "Well."
Lisa Hoashi:
Unusual I would say, unusual.
Annie Jameson:
But I get it now because I had that in the beginning. It was like, "Ah, there's a whole world out there now, and you can do anything you want more or less." But yeah, something about that changed as time went on. So I think I've got more comfortable with that uncertainty, so I'm keeping an open mind what happens beyond the next three months in that it could go in different ways and that's good with me. But yeah, the moments of complete uncertainty, again, after 20 years almost conditioning in a certain way, takes some strength I think to stay on a course of being positive and moving forward.
Lisa Hoashi:
Yeah, I mean having a full-time salaried position with all the things that go with it, is like as you mentioned ... you mentioned the word structure earlier. But it's like a very certain and structured existence for a long time, and then it's like boom you're in this whole different reality. I do like what you just pointed out that when we do allow ourselves that kind of space, then there's a lot of fear, right? Because there is a lot of uncertainty, we're not sure where we're going to land. But you are allowing space for a beautiful amount of possibility at the same time, and for you to be able to kind of discover those, which you weren't maybe so able to see as you were so focused and your attention was so focused in that more structured environment.
Annie Jameson:
Definitely.
Lisa Hoashi:
So, Annie, is there a part of the things that you're navigating right now that you would like a little bit of coaching around?
Annie Jameson:
Yeah. I think there's something in it for me around how you carve out these different opportunities. I think conversationally, or on LinkedIn you see much more about that you can find a different balance to life, it's important that people explore it, job crafting. I follow a podcast called Squiggly Careers, pieces like that. But what I find is I think I have a good network and I think I'm quite resourceful in where I look for maybe part-time opportunities or something a bit different, but I feel like I still come across like the structure of opportunities that existed for many years. So it's full-time positions. The only way of progressing is having bigger and bigger teams. So yeah, it's something around is there a way to approach that differently to kind of unlock those opportunities?
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Just to get really clear about what part of this you'd really like to focus in on, say we do a little bit of coaching around this for the next 15 minutes or so. What by the end of that would you like to have?
Annie Jameson:
I guess maybe some ideas to approach it differently. One thing maybe I didn't mention up until now and I think probably is quite a common thing of people taking these leaps, it can be very isolating. And that's not to say I don't talk to anyone about what I'm experiencing, I do, but still there can be many moments of feeling more isolated somehow. So yeah, I guess to come out of it with different ideas that I'm not thinking about on my own maybe.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Just thinking, I don't know, fast forward to the next couple of weeks, of we're really able to give you some different ideas to approach this in a way ... and there's something there about that isolation. How would it feel, or what would be a sign to you that you had arrived at a different place or with different ideas?
Annie Jameson:
I think it would be the feeling of there being more possibilities if that makes sense? I feel like as you go through your career and obviously you build up experience and then in parallel you're having your values more clearer and clearer, which is great, and I think it's an important thing that everybody should do. But then to find those opportunities that fully fit, or more or less, I'm not saying you can't make some sacrifices. Those opportunities become less and less. So it's like how do you open up that pool of possibility? That would be something really positive to feel that there are more possibilities than I was thinking.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And for you, why is this important right now?
Annie Jameson:
I don't know whether it's a question of time, as time passed. Because I've really enjoyed this time, because it's something as if there's a ticking clock. The longer you have it, I don't know whether it's a societal pressure or it's internal, probably a bit of everything. It's as if as time passes it's more important to see those options or those possibilities. Like there's going to become a D-Day where you're supposed to have figured out everything for ever again.
Lisa Hoashi:
Yeah, I wonder if you're talking about that sense that people feel like, "Okay, I can take a career break, but I can't go too far otherwise people won't want me anymore, or there's an expiration date."
Annie Jameson:
Yeah, I don't know. I've thought about that a bit. But I suppose the way that I try to structure my days is that I mean it's a different way of living than before, because I think a lot of us live with this sense of achievement through what we do. So I don't think it's the same level or the same rhythm that I was doing before, but still it's like having these targets. I want to get to this level in Spanish. So although I'd like to let go of that completely, I haven't, and I have that now. I still don't feel like I have things to show for these months, whether that's the right message or not.
Annie Jameson:
So I don't know about the expiration in that way. I just think that a lot of pressure that you have is like, "Okay, go and take some months out and then figure out what it is you want to do and come and tell me." I still think we have that as a society. These deadline days, not that it's a constantly evolving thing, because I think as people we could do this all the time. "Okay, I'm going to do this for a few years. Then I'm going to reflect, and now I'm going to do this chapter. And stop and do this chapter." But I think we're still like, "No, no, no." You leave school, you should know what you want to do. Like all your choices of classes are supposed to lead to what you want to do for the rest of your life.
Annie Jameson:
And I think we're transitioning to a different world, but I think there's still a lot of structures in place that are still putting us on that path. So it's like now should it be that whatever I do next is the same path for the rest of my life? Well, not necessarily. But I think that's still a pressure that we have.
Lisa Hoashi:
So, in order for us to help you create some space and get you some new ideas, what would we need to resolve or look at as pieces of this?
Annie Jameson:
I think it's about how ... well, again, how do you create those opportunities? What kind of conversations should you be having with people to make those opportunities happen?
Lisa Hoashi:
I get the sense that is there a way that you'd really like for it to happen or that you feel like you can kind of see how it should happen?
Annie Jameson:
I think it's ... maybe it's that I want a magic wand for the world to change more quickly than it is. And that applies to many things.
Lisa Hoashi:
In this case what would the magic wand do? What would be ...
Annie Jameson:
It could be create more part-time opportunities now. Again, and maybe I don't have full vision into this, but I think what I've seen is there are some slow change, some companies start to talk about when they publish roles and they offer them on a part-time basis. This is just one example of having a different balance. But still, I think a lot is, not at certain levels I guess, maybe it's more at junior levels or something like that, it's like can you find that with experience, where your experience is valued? Is it still that part-time opportunities exist more within more entry level administrative jobs or something like that?
Annie Jameson:
I think I have still seen more in that way. Otherwise it feels a bit all or nothing. So it's like, "Okay, let's make every role available with reduced hours." That could be one magic wand.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Annie Jameson:
It's like what starts it? How do you get going on that first step to make that ball start rolling that there's more companies doing it? Because again, I think the conversation happens, but I just don't see it so much in reality.
Lisa Hoashi:
So the question is how could you really have a leadership role on a less than full-time basis?
Annie Jameson:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. That I guess touches on other topics, and maybe not necessarily for a conversation for today, but I think you talk about burnout and places like this. So it's like as if you can only be successful if you give blood, sweat, tears for one company or one mission. And I think it's obvious that humans are more complex than that. Something about this all or nothing, like you can still give the very best of yourself but not be present within one company for 24 hours a day.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Annie, I know that mentoring is really important to you, and I imagine you have some experience mentoring?
Annie Jameson:
Yeah.
Lisa Hoashi:
I'm just curious, if we were to put someone that you're mentoring in your position, they would like something from the workplace that seems scarce or maybe is kind of at the end front edge, unusual, or potentially difficult to get an opportunity, like the one that they're looking for. What would you tell to the person, maybe the woman that you're mentoring, the woman leader that you're mentoring? What would you advise?
Annie Jameson:
Probably what some of my friends tell me. I guess it's something around patience and that you're on the right path. It's not like a state of inertia, so for me now to experiment with this contract. It's a step. And to combine than with patience, it's like as long as you're experimenting and moving forward and trying, that will make it happen. But yeah, have patience with that because if we had this magic wand we would fix many other things before we would fix this in the world. This kind of progress just takes time because we're all existing together, and it's complex.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And so on a practical level, we'll put this back to you, how could this be translate then or expressed on a practical level for you? What does it mean doing or thinking differently?
Annie Jameson:
Now you've got me thinking of whether it's more linked to the isolation piece, because when I was working I mean I had all types of managers, but let's say the good ones offered a lot of support through pieces like this in terms of, "Well, you can try this," or like you said, it could be a mentor, a coach. Maybe that's something that when I've exited that world, I have less of that. It's even more self-reliant than ever. And so it's more having that reassuring voice that there's someone thinking the same. But like I said, friends do it with me about, "Okay, be patient. You're trying all these things. Try not to expect so much of yourself to make everything happen so fast." Maybe it's something around that.
Lisa Hoashi:
And so if you were to kind of make a little adjustment to that, what would be a first step that you could take?
Annie Jameson:
I mean really I think I just need to get into this contract, because it's been some weeks to build up to it now, so I think I just need to be doing it now. Because that's the other thing for these months, it's great to reflect, but I'm definitely an over-thinker, so also having so much time to think, it can be a lot as well. Maybe it's like a false cycle now, because I think spent so much of life doing, and then I've been able to be a bit more. But I think maybe I need the balance and a bit more of doing again.
Annie Jameson:
But yeah, maybe I'm getting too deep with it. But it's like I find it really interesting though this concept of how conscious we live. And of course, I think it's really important to live consciously. But I don't know, routine and having things that you know you have to do. Obviously give something. And as an over-thinker it can switch off the over-thinking for a while.
Lisa Hoashi:
It sounds like if you were to switch to a little bit more doing now, it would be allowing the being, what you have learned through the being part, to then be acted out and to be kind of put into action.
Annie Jameson:
Yeah, I think so. That's generally the feeling I've had that what I said about sitting with yourself, I know it's really important long-term and that anybody that does it will reap that later. But yeah, when you're living it, not all moments feel great.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Annie Jameson:
So I think it's more that. But then it's like, "Okay," you move past that chapter and, like you said, put the things into action that you've learnt. That's an important step in the process as well.
Lisa Hoashi:
Yeah, and learning. Well just to come back to our original thought, what ideas are you now leaving with?
Annie Jameson:
I guess it's echoing that voice, that, "Okay, be patient." Things are starting to be in place to experiment, and that's what I wanted to do, to try different ways of living and being. And maybe it's a bit more let those pieces run their course now, and I'm going to learn so much more through living those.
Lisa Hoashi:
And going forwards, what can be a way that you can kind of remind yourself to stay with this mindset?
Annie Jameson:
I try and write a bit, like different reflections that I have. It's something that I've done these months as well. I do it from time to time, or refresh the notes to what I've learnt, what I've done, what did I think I would do and I did, and what I didn't do that I thought I would. So I guess I can adjust the notes.
Annie Jameson:
Another thing that I'll show you a bit here, it's like old school style, but I read something. It was in the new year about every week write down some things that have happened that week that you feel good about, or that you've learnt. I mean the idea is more at the end of the year you can look back at all these notes that you've made and it's nice. I like to do that at the end of a year as well. But yeah, maybe I can do some of those for this period and re-read them when I need to. But yeah, it's like an old jam jar with handwritten notes in.
Lisa Hoashi:
Yeah. I've done that with a massive to do list before. As I tick things off of a daunting list, I would put it in a jar so I had a visual representation.
Annie Jameson:
Nice.
Lisa Hoashi:
Well Annie, I just want to thank you for sharing this coaching time with me. And if that's feeling complete to you, then we'll end there. How's that feeling.
Annie Jameson:
Perfect. It's been really nice to talk it through.
Lisa Hoashi:
Awesome. Any last takeaways before we wrap up?
Annie Jameson:
I guess from when we chatted before, thinking a bit about your audience and advice or learnings that I thought was most relevant. I mean I've mentioned it a bit, but I think the sitting with yourself, I think it's really important to have a plan. Well, I guess I knew it would come, I expected it, but a plan in place to how you navigate through that. So if you've got a support network to help you talk through those things, because you're taking away a structure that you probably don't appreciate enough as well. It's easy after so long somewhere to see the things that you're glad to be free of, but maybe you don't see the things it gives you fully as well. So I think that's important.
Annie Jameson:
And it's a similar point, but on that theme, if you're used to being in groups or teams, how can you replicate that? Because actually going back to school to do Spanish class really helped me, because it was like we're a team with group objectives. And it was a very simple thing to start, but that first week I was like, "Wow, I missed this." And it was six hours a week of Spanish. I think it's good to have those plans in place to kind of support you through all the other pieces.
Lisa Hoashi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I often help people through that sort of planning time of when they want to take a break or a sabbatical, and that is one of my top tips. And from my own personal experience too is that when you suddenly have this line that divides the before and the after, it's really helpful to have some structure, some concrete plans in place to catch you, because it is going to be a shifting time of what's going on? What happened? And you do start to realize some of the things that are important to you, or that you miss, kind of like what you were saying about being on a team. That type of environment.
Lisa Hoashi:
I have a quick idea for you, just another one about the opening up opportunities.
Annie Jameson:
Okay, yeah.
Lisa Hoashi:
Something I often have people do when they're finding this ... they're feeling what you want to do is really difficult, or it's kind of counter-culture, or who's done this? Or it just feels ... there's that question of, "Can I really make this happen?" Is to do an exercise that I call the role model exercise, which is to start scanning just your world. And it could be people that you know, or people who are famous, or people who are historical and have already died. But to find people who have done what you have done, or what you would like to do.
Annie Jameson:
Okay.
Lisa Hoashi:
And so for example there's this question of who is a mother, and who really wants to be in a leadership position. And for example if you still wanted to lead a team, and how could do it on a 20 hour work week. Then to start scanning, collecting stories and ideas of people that have done that. And then really start to absorb, research and absorb their stories in order to start getting clues for your own path.
Annie Jameson:
Okay, yep, sounds great. I was thinking of a few as you were speaking. But yeah, I think it would be great, as you said, to research in more detail the different pieces of their stories and how they did it.
Lisa Hoashi:
All right, well to wrap up for today, Annie, I want to ask you the three questions that I ask every guest on the show. The first one is what do you wish that you had known before you took your leap?
Annie Jameson:
Maybe I hinted at it before, when you step out of a system, a big system like the corporate world, something about appreciating the things that it gives you. There's a reason why it's in place and why many people stay in it I guess. So if you need to do more practical things that that system allows you, like buy a flat, or these things, get them done before you take your leap. Then I guess yeah, have that consciousness for the things that it does bring to help you, like you said, with the structure when you step outside. I think that's one thing maybe I didn't think fully of before.
Lisa Hoashi:
And what's been a surprising thing that has come out of your leap that maybe you didn't expect?
Annie Jameson:
I think it's the thing around the kids. I always had this feeling that I haven't got time, when you get the 15th email from the school that day about they need this for Wednesday, this piece of homework. It's like, "Who has time for this?"
Lisa Hoashi:
I know the feeling.
Annie Jameson:
So I think with that then having time for it, still some I find a bit unnecessary or I think they can consolidate it better, but I think it surprised me that I got more reward from that. Because I don't know, I struggle with this, I think I am a creative person in some ways, but not so much with designing carnival costumes, it's not something I would usually do. I'm not saying I'm great at it now, but I did enjoy it. I enjoyed building that closer relationship with the school through that, seeing my kids in their day to day, seeing how happy they were that I entered that. I think that was really nice. And if people even in full-time jobs can find a way to do that, I think it's something really rewarding.
Lisa Hoashi:
And for people who may be considering a similar leap, what advice would you have for them?
Annie Jameson:
I think it's stuff that we've already talked about. I think it's something like don't underestimate how deep you're going to get with yourself. And again, have some plan because you don't know where that will take you. But some plan of support network, or like you said, structure in your day, or join a group if that's something that was a strong part of your working life before. I think that's the main one, the group piece and just making sure you've got that network in place. Because so many people, the way the majority of our working world is structured, it is very facilitating to live on some kind of autopilot. And so when you step out of that, it's a thing that many people are not used to.
Annie Jameson:
Again, I think the world is changing. There's so much around mindfulness and meditation. But I think we're just scratching the surface of that now, depending on the culture. But I guess what we're talking about today, or my story, stepping out of that autopilot is eye opening.
Lisa Hoashi:
Yeah. I really appreciate you coming and being with us at this moment. It's a bit of a scary, in between zone when you're still exploring and you're not showing up and saying, "I have all the answers," and, "I have it all out figured out." I really appreciate you coming and sharing with us and experience of this moment, because it's really important and it's definitely part of every single leap that anyone takes, there's the before, the middle and the end. You know?
Annie Jameson:
Yeah.
Lisa Hoashi:
And even the end is like, you know, is it really an end? It's like bam, and you go into something else.
Annie Jameson:
I saw a really nice quote yesterday I think it was. Susan Cain, who's most famous for writing a book about introversion, The Quiet Revolution, went on Renee Brand's podcast and talked about ... and this is something I like to read about as well, that a lot of our world only talks about positivity, and in the human experience there's obviously a lot of pain. And so it's really important to talk about all those elements of the journey because I think we're kind of kidding ourselves if we only talk about everything being perfect all of the time. So yeah, I'm very happy to share my parts of the journey.
Lisa Hoashi:
I'm looking forward to her book. I can't think of the title right now, but I think it's about longing, and something about the more difficult shadow side we could say of life, of our experiences and how that too is beneficial.
Annie Jameson:
Yeah, it's the bitter sweet.
Lisa Hoashi:
That's right, yeah. Well, if people who are listening or watching would like to get in touch with you or follow you, how can they do that?
Annie Jameson:
I'm quite active on LinkedIn, so I'd be happy to connect on LinkedIn. I am looking at doing this podcast, I'm trying to get that live at the podcast. I'll probably put it on a YouTube Channel so I can share the link of that channel, otherwise I'll be on LinkedIn.
Lisa Hoashi:
Cool. And say again what your podcast will be about?
Annie Jameson:
I want to do it more broadly around human first leadership, and then with different topics underneath that. The first one will be on diversity and inclusion, and then potentially different pieces on that. Also talking a lot about, well it's within diversity and inclusion, but around privilege, the role of power in diversity and inclusion and where that comes from that outside maybe the more known about elements of diversity. But yeah, anything human first from a leadership angle.
Lisa Hoashi:
Very cool, great. Well we'll definitely include those in the show notes.
Annie Jameson:
Okay, perfect.
Lisa Hoashi:
Thanks again for joining us today, Annie, it's been a pleasure.
Annie Jameson:
Thank you for the time and for all your input, it's been really helpful.
Lisa Hoashi:
Good, glad to hear it.
Lisa Hoashi:
Thank you for listening to this episode of Leap Like Me. If you're enjoying this show and getting lots of value from it, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you don't miss any new episodes, and leave us a five star review. Also, do you know anyone who's considering a career change who might appreciate the ideas and inspiration from this show? Please let them know about it. We want as many people as possible to benefit from these shows. And know that if you do share it, you can always add me, @LisaHoashi, on Instagram or LinkedIn. By the way, if you haven't already connected with me in those two places, I'm also sharing tons of good stuff there.
Lisa Hoashi:
Speaking of sharing, I want you to know about my new free change planner. This planner is for you if you'd like to make a significant change in life or work, but you're feeling kind of stuck. My change planner will help you get the clarity you need to take your next steps. Inside, I'll show you how to understand what you really want and why it's important, how to face your fears constructively so they don't hold you back, and this planner also has a scenario cruncher. I hope you get all possible scenarios out of your head so you can find the right one for you. It's my favorite part. And having used it with many clients, I've seen how powerful it is.
Lisa Hoashi:
I know you're going to get many great insights out of this free planner, so head on over to leaplikeme.com to get your copy. That's a wrap for this episode, thanks for listening, for sharing the show and being part of this journey with me. Take good care.