How to Network with Purpose with Klementina (Tina) Sula
If you’re ready to take a leap or at a crossroads moment, do you know where to begin with your networking? Or do you feel overwhelmed with how to create, cultivate, and sustain meaningful relationships? Life is a relationship business. The connections that we build lead to the opportunities that come our way.
In today’s episode, I’m talking with Tina Sula, a philanthropic advisor and fundraiser, professor, and expert in networking. She’s sharing the importance of knowing what you want, how to make authentic connections, and being clear about your value alignment.
As Tina shares, networking is about who knows you, and the “moments of lift” that you get from others is built on how your purpose and your leadership align with how you network. I hope that this episode gives you lots of inspiration as well as practical tips on how to network with authenticity and vulnerability.
And if you’re looking for extra support in navigating your own crossroads moment, I’m here to coach you through these big changes and leaps. Visit my coaching page or send me a message to learn more.
In this episode, you’ll learn...
[03:09] How opportunities are given to us by other people (they don’t just appear out of nowhere) and how to network in a way that lets people know what you are looking for
[09:39] Taking time to reflect on what you really want when you’re stuck, following up when it comes to networking and job interviews, and the importance of vulnerability and taking action to get where you want to go
[17:00] How knowing your why and being able to articulate it can help you achieve your goals, and how Tina advises people to confidently rebrand themselves when they’re taking a leap (it’s all about building authentic relationships)
[27:13] How Tina creates structure to help her cultivate and keep up with relationships
[30:15] Understanding the etiquette of following up and building relationships, and Tina’s four-step mindset process for networking
[35:47] Networking is about who knows you and so making your personal brand very clear helps others keep you top of mind for opportunities
[37:07] The importance of value alignment
This season is all about the different kinds of leaps you can make in your life. If you’re looking to make more meaningful networking connections, be sure to tune into this episode.
Links mentioned in this episode…
Clay app for managing your connections
Connect with Lisa Hoashi
Connect with Tina Sula
How to Network: Leading Yourself to Lead Others (Tina’s Coursera course)
Tina Sula’s Bio
Klementina (Tina) Sula is a faculty member at the University of Michigan teaching "Network Your Way to an International Internship and Career" to students in the Program in International and Comparative Studies. She is also a philanthropic advisor and fundraiser, currently with the Jewish Federation of Metropolitan Detroit. She's held leadership positions with Henry Ford Health, and the University of Michigan where she spearheaded the liberal arts college's fundraising efforts outside of the US. She has also worked for the US Embassy in Khyiv, Ukraine, the United States Mission to the United Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, the Club de Madrid in Madrid, Spain, and for the State Department in Washington, D.C. This past year, she also created an online course with UM's Center for Academic Innovation, which you can access for free on Coursera called "How to Network: Leading Yourself to Lead Others."
Transcript of Episode 42: How to Network with Purpose with Tina Sula
[00:00:00] Tina Sula Networking is not about what you know, and networking is not even about who you know. Networking is about who knows you.
[00:00:12] Lisa Hoashi Welcome to Leap Like Me, the podcast that helps you to be bold in life, to stretch what's possible and find more adventure, joy and purpose along the way. I'm your host, Lisa Hoahi. I'm a life coach who can help if you're ready to take a new, more authentic direction in life. On Leap Like Me, we share the inspiring stories of people like you who have made a brave leap and offer practical tips for how to set your leap in motion, too. Let's get started. Hello, everyone. This is Lisa Hoashi and welcome to Leap. Like me. I'm so excited for our guest today and for our topic, which is all about networking and what it has to do with living a life of intention and purpose. I've invited Klementina Sula, who is a faculty member at the University of Michigan. She has been teaching a course there for students called Network Your Way to an international Internship and Career since 2015. She's also a philanthropic advisor and fundraiser with the Jewish Federation of Metropolitan Detroit. Tina has also worked for the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, the United States Mission to the United Nations in Geneva, the Club de Madrid in Madrid, and for the State Department in Washington, DC. Recently, she also created an online course with the University of Michigan's Center for Academic Innovation that you can access for free on Coursera called How to Network Leading Yourself to Lead Others. Welcome, Tina to leap like me. Thanks for joining us.
[00:01:55] Tina Sula Oh, thank you, Lisa, so much for this opportunity. And I'm so grateful to be with you and all of your listeners.
[00:02:01] Lisa Hoashi Yeah, Thank you. So I discovered you when I listened to a webinar that you gave last year that was about authentic networking. And you said something that I'm going to paraphrase here in a moment that really stuck with me. You basically said that opportunities don't just fall from the sky, that someone, a human, has to give them to you. And I just loved that reminder. And I think it was like a great way to think about networking. And as you know, I am a coach that works with people who are kind of at a crossroads moment, thinking about like what's next. And sometimes I know that people arrive at those moments and they're feeling it can be kind of lonely, full of doubt, you know, you might feel a little isolated and it's like the moment that we need support from people and we would love to have opportunities to choose from, right in those moments. And so this is kind of why I really wanted to bring you on the show to talk a little bit more like how can we arrive at those moments in a place where we're feeling connected and also where opportunities are kind of bubbling up for us?
[00:03:09] Tina Sula Yeah, well, it took me a very long time to learn that lesson, right? Also, I think on that same webinar I talked about, you know, when I graduated from the University of Michigan, I had this great resume made with great experiences, you know, and the graduation comes and I didn't have a job. You know, I did all the right things. I did everything the career center told me to do, you know? And then people said, you know, well, Tina, you have to network. And I'm kind of like, Well, great. What is that? Right? And then you go to Google and then you're like, type networking and then you're getting these tips and tricks. And I'm like, Well, that's not me. I can't really do that. So I felt stuck. Like you said, you know, like, what am I supposed to do? You know, like I said, I did all the all the right things. But then I think sort of teaching students, right? When we teach other people, we really get to understand well how things work. And I think the biggest life lesson and I think my students really appreciate is exactly that. And I learned that from being an immigrant kid. You know, America is the land of opportunity. Opportunities don't fall from the sky. Someone has to give them to you. So today I'm wearing this shirt. It's my joy shirt from the holidays. It was given to me by my first boss. Her name was Peggy Burns. It was Peggy Burns who I got to sit next to at a scholarship dinner. So I had a scholarship to attend the University of Michigan. And then at the end of the of my three years at Michigan, I was asked if I could give a speech, you know, to talk about all the things that I did as a michigan Michigan student. So I was sitting next to Peggy. She had this big title, which was Assistant dean for development marketing communications. And honestly, I didn't know what development meant. You know, as a Poli Sci student, I thought it was international development. And then she asked me, What are you doing after graduation? And so feeling stuck. And I had this sort of idea and it's a very wrong idea. And we can talk about it later that I will probably never see this person again. So what do I have to lose? You know, I said, you know, I'm studying for the LSAT and I really need a part time job. Any chance you have something for me? So at that moment the dean interrupts, the program starts. I go and give my speech when my turn comes. And then when I'm done, I go back to my seat and Peggy's digging through her big purse for her card and says, When you're done will be with the LSAT, call me, I want you to work with me. And that was the start of my career as a a fundraiser. And it's. Something that I've been doing for I'm in my 16 year now. So it was Peggy, you know, a human who saw something in me. And then, you know, after my presentation said, Hey, I can give this girl, right, this young person, that moment of lift. So these moments of lift really come from the people that we meet or the people that we already know. So it's just a matter of how can we let people around us know what we are looking for so that they can help us get where we need to go because we can't give opportunities to ourselves. You know, we can set our intentions and we can be on purpose and, you know, on purpose needs to be intentional, right, to do something on purpose. But ultimately, you know, if you could do something on your own, you would have done it. But if you need an opportunity, then there's somebody who has an opportunity to give and it aligns with what you're looking for that then can can come to you. I think, you know, especially, you know, in the U.S., there is this mentality I can do it myself or, you know, I'm independent and all this, but I don't know anyone who's done something on their own. I listen to a lot of podcasts or read a lot of biographies and autobiographies. There are always people behind the scene that gave that moment of coaching or that said, Hey, you know, let me connect you to this person for funding or Hey, let's talk about this. Maybe, you know, you can help me with a project so that you can start your business career. I guess to summarize, I think I've learned that life is a relationship business and the world is our work. Yeah. You know, everything we do is for one another and to advance humanity.
[00:07:45] Lisa Hoashi Yeah, Well, so, Tina, I want there are so many pieces of this that I am looking forward to exploring with you. I think one of them, though, is there's just a like I mean, I've just gotten the sense that this moment has been like such an important sort of learning point and so much of your inspiration then both for your career. And I do want to point out that you are a philanthropic advisor and and fundraiser and and I one of my former bosses and mentors, she was also a fundraiser and philanthropic advisor in international development. And I know from having observed her that like she is a master at creating and maintaining relationships, relationships that have to be built on trust because people are you're asking people to give like a lot of money to support, you know, a cause or a project. And so it's like these are this is very much part of your work. I just really want to underline, I think that what can be really helpful is just what you mentioned about being an immigrant kid. I am from an immigrant family, so my grandparents immigrated from Japan to the U.S. and I had, you know, my experience. I can remember that moment in college. It's like my parents had such high hopes for me. I'm going to a really good school, you know, and really achieving. And so it was like at that moment that I like, finished, you know, the education I'd done, like the piece that they had really wanted for me. And then it was like, Oh my gosh, I have to go get a job with this now and then do that next level thing of like going and getting a good job. And I had no idea how to do that. And I guess, you know, I noticed other other students around me kind of feeling seen like they are doing that effortlessly. And I kind of felt like I was starting from scratch, kind of like that, that like, where am I starting from? So I just am curious about over the years, as you've thought about this, what is some of your advice for people who kind of feel like they're starting from scratch?
[00:09:39] Tina Sula I guess the one, the one. Aha. Another aha. Is that there is no learning without reflection. So I learned this from one of my CEOs that I reported to when I worked at Henry Ford Health System corrosion. You know, it's a powerful thing. You know, there is no learning without reflection because we're all like so busy doing. I mean, I remember in one of your previous podcasts you said if you want to get a new job, you don't go on LinkedIn, you don't update your, you know, your resume or all the stuff. You don't even call your friends. You really have that conversation with yourself and say, you know, what is it that I really want? I mean, that's really I mean, that's the self leadership. You can't lead others and say, help me until you first and foremost lead yourself. So when I when I think back about like no learning without reflection, I mean, if you look at my college resumé, I mean, I worked I was in D.C. for a semester. You know, I had an internship there. I had a an internship in Spain, I had an internship in Detroit. I had an internship in Flint, Michigan. So I was networking, right. Like, I was doing the things to get me where I needed to go, but. Honestly, I didn't do the reflection because no one taught me until ten years after college that there is no learning without reflection. Right. So when I was interning in D.C., I worked at a think tank. I was at the, you know, the printer, right? And then there was a senior fellow that came and she we were just chatting. And then she's like, Oh, where are you from? And I said, I'm born in Albania, but I'm from Michigan. And she's like, Oh, are you enjoying your internship? And I say, Oh, it's great. I'm learning this, this and this. And she's like, You need to come to my office. I need to show you something because you're Albanian. And I said, Okay. So I follow her to her office. There is a picture of Mother Theresa blessing the USAID plane, the first one to go to Albania. You know, I get really emotional. She and I have this great connection, right? People give to people like she shared this really meaningful experience with me, you know, And then she's like, well, what are you doing next summer? Kind of like another Peggy ism, right where she came to me and she's like, Oh, what are you doing next summer? Because, you know, that's what people do. They do internships. And I said, I've applied for a State Department internship, so we'll see how it goes. I said, I would really love to go to Albania as an intern. And she's like, Well, let me know how it goes. And January came. I was selected as an alternate, and following up is like the most important part of networking, right? That's because I think trust is built on the follow up. And most people are like, okay, I got what I wanted from Lisa, you know what I mean? And then I'm just going to go do my thing. And then Lisa's wondering, I connected Tina with this person. I wonder what happened, you know, and then, you know, only comes back to Lisa when Tina needs something. So I've learned to always follow up, whether it's good news, whether it's bad news or even it's just I just wanted to say hi because I've been thinking of you or the song Make Me Think of You. I read this article to remind me of the conversation. So anyways, I followed up with Carol. Just forward the email. I get a I get a call 5 minutes later from the State Department and the lady and I now remember her name to this day. You know, she said, you know, I'm calling from H.R. at the State Department. You know, we're so excited to offer you a State Department internship. And I'm like, No, because I just got this email. So I think you guys must be confused. And she's like, Oh, no, no, no. I have it under, you know, I just got a direct email from the undersecretary for the Bureau of Europe and Eurasia to offer you an internship. And I'm just kind of like, what? Like what's going on? As it turned out, the undersecretary and the senior fellow at the think tank, where I worked or where I had worked the previous semester, they were dear friends. So the senior fellow, because of that emotional connection that we had, you know, in her office for a couple of minutes, decided to give me another moment of lift which was this girl really wants to do this and I have an opportunity or I know how I can help her or it's within my power to help her. And she forwarded that that email which resulted in me getting that State Department, you know, internship that I otherwise would not have gotten. So all the opportunities I really believe this, all the opportunities that we seek, if we're able to clarify them, if we're able to name them one of our first degree connections, we'll have a connection to someone who will have access to that opportunity or who can connect us to someone who can help us get us closer to that opportunity. So I think when people say I'm feeling alone and isolated, well, you have to do the exact it's counterintuitive, right? It's like when you're feeling alone, go and reach out to people. Right. Be vulnerable. I think we forget to be vulnerable. You know, we don't want to be seen like a failure. We don't want to seem like a loser, you know, whatever that, you know, that feeling at the moment is. But I've learned that when I'm vulnerable and say, you know, I'm having a hard time or I don't know how to figure this out or I'm really just stuck. I think that's where and I'm sure there's plenty of psychological studies that can attest to this, but I think that's where other people are most, you know, inspired to help you and say, oh, don't worry, we got this. You know, you're looking for a new job. I'm going to set informational interviews with, you know, five people that I know. And I think that if we create the processes and if we do follow up and meet those people, and then if we do follow up with those people, you know, then meet those people, then connect us to more people. And then before we know it that we have more opportunities than we know what to do with. But it's the taking action part and saying, you know, I could be miserable and feel sorry for myself or I can go and share with others, you know, what I need and really rely on them to help and support right life as a relationship. Business people, I have learned and I've learned this, you know, being in philanthropy while people give millions of dollars because they want to make the world a better place. People want to help. People want to make the world a better place. So I think if we have that mindset and we trust that, I'm sure one out of ten people might be busy or they might not respond to your email, but there will be other people who will respond to, you know, your email and give you, like I say, that moment of lift.
[00:16:27] Lisa Hoashi So what I'm hearing, like just to go back to that idea of like I kind of feel like I'm starting from scratch or I'm stuck or I'm feeling isolated. It's really about taking some time to reflect on what it is that you really want. Think about what it is that you can potentially share with other people or ask them for taking in to like that vulnerability and account that people actually do want to help. And even though it can feel scary to be like, Hey, I need help, or to be like, I'm lost, I'm feeling kind of lost, can you help to take that risk? Anything else to add kind of on that front?
[00:17:00] Tina Sula So another a clarity I think is like so important. So I can give you the exam like an example from my own life, right there was there was like a moment, another moment in my life where I was like, okay, maybe I don't want to be a fundraiser anymore. Right. But everybody had branded me as a, you know, is a fundraiser or Tina is a teacher. Right? We we all have brands, you know, like what people say or think about us when we're not with them. Right. So, you know, I spend a lot of time with my students to really help them align who they are with, how they show up. Right. So if you're you know, if you're wanting to make a pivot, right. Or if you're across cross at a crossroads and you don't want to do what you did previously, right, then you have to do that. You know, the self leadership, the soul searching, where you say, you know, I really want to pivot to ABC, and then you have to start introducing yourself or showing up in a way that very much aligns the new direction that you want to follow. Right? Because we're we're humans, right? We, we seek patterns, right? So if Tina's the teacher, then we will always think of Tina as a teacher. And if Tina wants to pivot, you know, and become an astronaut, then it's, you know, it's going to take a while for us to think of Tina as an astronaut, because that's the new direction that she has chosen, you know, And people are not going to do that work for you. I mean, that's work that you're going to have to do, you know, you have to do for yourself. I have found and I think this is the hardest exercise for a lot of my students, if you do the informational interviews like one on one, and if somebody gives you 20 or 30 minutes or an hour of their time and you let them know that this is what I want to do, this is why I want to do it, help me figure out how I can do it. And I think the why is the most crucial, because people want to make sure that, you know, your your reason and your rationale and your motivation is is good, right? They want to know that. You're now wasting their time.
[00:19:09] Lisa Hoashi And they can get behind it. Right. To figure out the how.
[00:19:12] Tina Sula So I think that becomes, like, hugely important. So, you know, when Simon Sinek says, start with why? I mean, that's what he's saying. Like, we as humans want to know your motivation. We want to know if we should align with you. Does your purpose right align with my purpose? Right. Because if it aligns, I'll go to the moon and back for you to support you. Right. But if we're not aligned right or if your values don't align with mine. I probably wouldn't make as much of a of an effort. So I think this is where I say that fundraising is an inside job or development is an inside job. So philanthropy is an inside job, which basically means that philanthropy is a form of leadership because leadership is an inside job. Well, another one of your podcasts, somebody talked about how I think in Spain, I mean, this was the case for my dad in Albania, you know what I mean? You sort of pick your yeah, what you're going to study and then you get a job, right? Right. But the thing about leadership is like, no one gives you a sort of this is your journey. You've got to do this, then this, then this, then this. When you are the CEO of a company, you're leading with your values because there is no this. These are the instructions. You're doing it based on what you think is important, based on the direction that you want, you know, you believe is the right one for the world or for the company or for the people that you lead. Before I started teaching, because I think as a teacher, I am a coach to my students. I didn't really understand the value of coaches. And you are one, right? And then now I have this exercise that I talk about. It's like, can you see the things you know, there are the tip of your nose, right? I mean, I can see the tip of my nose because, you know, I'm on video, right? But if I look this way, you know, if I look this way, I see this side. If I look this way, I see this side. But we need a friend or a coach, you know, or a mentor or a teacher, you know, for the things that are so dear to us. But we can articulate. I mean, that's the whole point of coaching, like somebody who can take you on that journey so that you can articulate, you know, what's most important to you. That's at the tip of your the tip of your nose.
[00:21:29] Lisa Hoashi Well and like you mentioned, you know, at the I think you bring up a great point about the sort of career pivoting. I'd be curious to know how you handle that in the end. But, you know, I work with people a lot around career pivots. And like you said, it can be a really challenging moment because like you said, we're having to do the work for other people to get them to think of us in a different way as we are also kind of charting this new territory that we've never done before. And we feel kind of, you know, scared and unsettled by it. We're not sure how it's going to turn out. So I'm curious, and maybe from your own experience, you know, how do you advise people at those moments to kind of, like you said, like to kind of rebrand themselves or to move along that path to where they can kind of show up and say, hey, now I'm the astronaut?
[00:22:19] Tina Sula I mean, so I can I can give you my own experience. So I started my career in higher ed fundraising. So I did alumni relations, then I did international fundraising for the liberal arts college at Michigan. And then Peggy decided to transition and go to health care. And she and I had a conversation about me joining her in health care right as a health care fundraiser. So I'm married to a physician, you know, And the joke was, you know, when I made this pivot that, oh, Tina's going to be a great fundraiser in health care because she's married to a doctor, you know, because every woman wants to be judged by, you know, her husband's profession, you know, I mean, but that was my only connection at that time to health care. So I did just fine in health care. You know, I feel like I really got to understand health care because, you know, we all have transferable skills. And I think sometimes we don't realize how transferable our skills are, you know, until we have a coaching moment or we go to a workshop and somebody actually makes us sit down and start thinking about them. But I go back to life as a relationship. Business people give opportunities to people, and most everybody that I know, the opportunity that they got. And I'm you know, most of the statistics are made up on the spot, but I'm willing to bet that probably for more than 80% of the people, the opportunity they got is because of their network. Like somebody trusted them. Somebody vouched for them, just like Peggy vouched for me in health care and said, Tina can figure it out. And when you have that kind of support and somebody says, like, I've seen her be successful, I've seen her solve the problems, I think that's the that's the most important thing. When I was hired in the job that I have now, you know, a lot of the people that I worked with previously were called, right? I mean, this is sort of where, you know, you put, you know, here the my references, sometimes people, they call those references, sometimes they just call up, you know, somebody that they know who knows me. But that's the whole point of reference is the whole point of reference is can I trust that this person will do that job? So obviously like to make a transition from a fundraiser to astronaut, you probably have to go and, you know, learn engineering and all that kind of stuff, right? And then you're going to have a network, right? You're going to have people. In the astronaut world that you're going to get to know, then your job is to make sure that you build relationships with those people. So, you know, I'm a list person. You know, I have my list of ten people that I'm going to call or have a touchpoint with today, whether it's donors or whether it's former students or whether it's who else do I have? People that I know from LinkedIn world, right? People that, you know, I build relationships, but I've never met and I would like to meet. When I came back from California to Michigan and then I was like, okay, well, I'm you know, I want to find a job in Michigan. We moved at the end of July. You know, I had a job. Like I already had signed in mid March because, you know, I had called a friend and said, hey, you know, I found this posting, you know, what do you think? He was like, Oh, my God, you're coming back to Michigan. This is exciting. I'm going to hang up now and I'm going to call the head of h.r. For you, right? Because, you know, he and i had continued that relationship. You know, we would say a happy new year, right? Or, hey, you know, i'm working, you know, with this mental health startup and, you know, you're someone who really cares about the space, you know, what are your thoughts on this? Right. Like I had engaged him, you know, with something related to his purpose and the things that are meaningful to them. So, like, you can't possibly do something with that mindset of, you know, I'm going to be nice to this person because I'm going to need them in the future because like, you can't do that for the entire world. You know, it has to be. I mean, we talk about authentic networking. It has to be because you really want to connect with that person and you know, you want that person in your in your world, Right? It's not if you're going to do something with, you know, I need him or her. People, first of all, feel fake really easily. Like, you know, if.
[00:26:35] Lisa Hoashi They can sense it.
[00:26:36] Tina Sula Right, they can sense that. So, you know, if you're going to do something, do it in alignment with who you are.
[00:26:41] Lisa Hoashi Yeah. I want to go back to I mean, this was something I really wanted to ask you about, is that there are lots of relationships I want to be cultivating. And, you know, we all get kind of busy and it's like and I am seeing more and more of that. I do need to have kind of systems, like you said, that that structure and those habits build so that I'm I can really keep track of the, you know, am I checking them with these close friends and my checking in with these people in my more collegial business world, you know, with these clients? What are some of the systems that you have set up, that structure that supports you? I mean, I love the to do list, but yeah, I'm curious, how do you kind of keep track and and make sure that you're doing that follow up that you mentioned was so important for creating trust and relationships.
[00:27:32] Tina Sula Yeah. So, so now there is an app called Clay that helps you do that. It integrates like your LinkedIn, so you know.
[00:27:42] Lisa Hoashi Clay.
[00:27:43] Tina Sula C L A Y dot earth. So I, you know, sort of like you pick up things on LinkedIn and people make calls. So I got to know the team from Clay and I was like, Wow, this is amazing because now, you know, there is an app that will set reminders for me. You know, some people need that kind of reminder for me, to be honest, if I am a fundraiser, I am in the relationship business. So I'm always, you know, in it, you know, and it's one of those things where some if something takes like 30 to 60 seconds, I think the rule is to just do it. So whenever I think about someone I just sent the note there, I just it's very it's a very tough thing to do, you know? I mean, so you have to do things that are, you know, aligned with like I keep saying it, you have to do it. Things are authentic to you aligned with who you are. So there is the app for for me, I mean, they say that you can only handle 150 relationships at a time. I forgot the name of the law. So I mean, you can literally have an Excel list of these 150 relationships and you can prioritize. You can have your A and your B and T or C, and then you can say, you know, it's really important for me to reach out to the my top 25 at least once a month, and then you can just track it. You know, I reached out, you know, in January. When did I reach out to my top 25 and February one? Did I do that? It doesn't seem very wholesome because you're like, Oh, I have a list, right?
[00:29:13] Lisa Hoashi Because you have a list, a reminder.
[00:29:14] Tina Sula But that's the reminder that we need.
[00:29:17] Lisa Hoashi Yeah. One of my clients, actually, she just decided like a priority was that she was going to nurture her friendships. And so she just on a whiteboard in her kitchen, she had like, when was the last time she contacted, you know, her five friends? And she would just kind of put like, oh, the last time I saw them for dinner. And then, you know, here I sent them a text and it I think it's a great idea, like you said. They can kind of feel maybe a little weird to have a list. But I think that when you have an intention, you know, it's just like anything else in life, when we have an intention to grow or develop or nurture, then it's like we need those trackers sometimes I think, because otherwise life just gets in the way. You know.
[00:29:59] Tina Sula If you don't set the structure where it's going to block time to do the things that I value. So if your relationships are what you value, then you have to block time for them or before you know it, it's New Year 2024.
[00:30:15] Lisa Hoashi Yeah, well, the other thing I'd really like to ask you about, in addition to those habits, is about the etiquette, which is you kind of got into it a little bit about, you know, about the follow up. I would love to hear a little bit more about like your advice on how to make sure that you really are following up with people, especially who have given you opportunities and any other things that people should kind of keep in mind. They're either going to like, you know, damage the trust or like help build the trust in the relationships.
[00:30:47] Tina Sula I teach a networking mindset, a networking process. Right. Just, you know, because it's always nice to start with theory. So we're all talking the same language. So and, you know, and the networking mindset is that we can achieve our goals and purposes through our relationship with others. Right? So this is why, you know, where we started the conversation around people give opportunities to people. So if you believe that we can achieve our goals and purpose is through our relationships with others, then we can move to the network networking process, which is, okay, how do we do it? You know, there's more on the online course on that, but it's a four step process. And number one is what are you trying to achieve? Step two is who who can help you or who you want to start with, because networking is about who networking is about people. That step three is you have to go and make the ask. When you make the ask, you know, it's kind of like your emails and your communications. When you reached out to me, you know, it was very clear what you did, why you did it, and then how you did it, you know, I mean, where I didn't have to guess where I could say her why aligns with my why, right. And the how she wants to do it is something that I can actually do. Right? Because if you ask me to do something that I couldn't do, you know, in the end, then I could basically say yes. And then that's step number four is, you know, the follow up and follow through and the sharing of gratitude. A lot of people get stuck on the I can't ask for help, you know, I mean, because, you know, what am I going to give? How can I what can I do for that person? And so this is definitely the case, you know, for the undergrad population.
[00:32:28] Lisa Hoashi Right? They feel like they have low.
[00:32:31] Tina Sula Right? Yeah. Why would somebody want to talk to me or, you know, I think that's also the case when you're feeling very isolated and alone, why would anybody want to talk to me? But the thing about it and we talked about it earlier is people do want to help, right? People do want to engage. All you have to do is be clear once again about what you want and why you want it. And you know, what exactly are you looking for so that people can say, yes, Lisa, I can help you with that or no, Lisa, I cannot help you with that. But let me introduce you to my friend Zane. Right. So being really clear is so important. And that's why step number one is the first step is and it goes back to your previous podcast around what are you really trying to accomplish here? Forget it. Forget the how. Let's start with where, you know, where are we trying to go? You know, it's like I always tell my students, you know, you can you can have a GPS, right? You can say networking is your GPS. The problem is if you don't have an end destination where you know that you're trying to go to Ann Arbor, then you're just going to redirect and redirect and redirect.
[00:33:40] Lisa Hoashi It's not useful.
[00:33:41] Tina Sula Yeah, right. It's not it's not meaningful. So I think once you get to I am contacting this person because then actually just reach out like, what's the worst that can happen? You know, they going to say, No.
[00:33:53] Lisa Hoashi I love that. So if you've got that because then that's enough for you to reach out.
[00:33:57] Tina Sula You know, and then you have to be very able to go back to vulnerability, you know, reaching out because I really want to transition from being a recruiter to being a software engineer or whatever, or a data engineer. And I see that you've made this a similar transition. You know, any chance you can give me 15 minutes of your time? You know, it would really make the, you know, the world of difference for me. And you can you know, it's easy. You can email people. Most everybody's emails I feel like are on the Internet. You can find them on LinkedIn. In most cases. You'll probably find these people on LinkedIn because they're telling you their story. I mean, if I am out, you know, out there teaching a class. Or posting on LinkedIn. And if you don't feel comfortable to reach out to me, I'm literally telling you like, I can help with this. Am I right? Just do it and be okay with rejection. I mean, I'm very okay with rejection because I get rejected all the time. You know, I ask people for money to make the world a better place. Many times they say yes. Sometimes they say, not now, and sometimes they say that's not. I'm not aligned with that. That's not the thing that I care most about. And then I think once you have these meaningful conversations with people, then do a meaningful follow up and a meaningful thank you and keep people in the loop.
[00:35:21] Lisa Hoashi This is where I can see the structure would really help because sometimes opportunities take a long time to kind of, you know, turn into something. And I think maybe that's where people can kind of fall off. And I know I can I can remember some things right now, like, you know, I didn't follow up with that person for that thing they introduced me to a year ago, which in the meantime has really made a difference to me. And I never have told them, you know, But it's been a while.
[00:35:47] Tina Sula I feel like each of us has like a quote that's around, you know, or many quotes where it's like people will know it as a Lisa ism or a Tina ism. And I think one of mine and I remember writing it in one of my what's it called? My note cards that has my, you know, my name at the top and mine. I think for, you know, the this decade what are was or is be someone people remember you know I say you know my definition of networking maybe we should start with that is networking is not about what you know and networking is not even about who you know networking is about who knows you. So it really aligns with be someone people remember. Because if people are the ones who give opportunities, people have access to opportunities all the time. We get emails, we get, you know, like a friend is, you know, you're reading of the friend, you know, for happy hour and they're like, Oh my God, I can't recruit for this position. It's really annoying because like, I really need someone to help with this. If people don't know what you stand for, right? This is like the personal brand. If people don't know what you're trying to accomplish with your life or your professional life, how can they help you, right? Like, because there are so many opportunities. How can they connect, you know, the opportunities that align with you? Can I sort of have a final thought?
[00:37:06] Lisa Hoashi Definitely. Let's hear it.
[00:37:07] Tina Sula So my final thought is around value alignment. I think if there is anything sort of like my biggest lesson, you know, I always have lessons, like when I go on a trip, like, what's my big take away? But my biggest take away from my almost 20 months in California was the importance of value alignment. So it's very clear, right, that your values, you know, and your purpose align with my values and my purpose around how we serve other people. Because at the end of the day, leadership is about serving others. It's not about being a boss. So as we think about, it's great when you're have a job offer, you know, I mean, it's like, Oh, great, I got a job offer. I'm, you know, I'm no longer a crossroads. Like, I made it to the, you know, the end points. But there is no point to accepting a job because you need a job if you're going to end up being miserable in that job. So think very hard about, you know, what are the values of the company and of the people that work at that company and really determine if their values and their mission statement, which, you know, it's kind of like having a mission statement or purpose align with who you are. Yeah. Because if we don't have if we don't have value alignment, if we don't have that there, we're going to be back in the, you know, at the drawing board before we know it. So it's okay to get excited, but go and have the informational interviews with people who work at that company. Like as you're doing the interviews or even beforehand to determine like, what is that company really all about? And there is a difference between in informational interviews, which are informal, like people will share with you very openly. Right. It's hey Tina. It's like this, this, this, and this. Because once you go on a formal interview, they no longer represent themselves. They represent the company. So take the time to get as much information as possible to really determine that alignment. And I think as you're meeting people, the people you want in your network are the people who are going to be value aligned to you, because when you're value aligned, it's a real relationship. When you're aligned with somebody because of, oh, they're the CEO or the CMO, it's not a real relationship. You're I mean, you're not going to value them if they didn't have that position.
[00:39:28] Lisa Hoashi Mm hmm.
[00:39:29] Tina Sula So if people give opportunities to people who their value align with and that's where we talked about, you know, being sincere and being authentic because people can smell fake.
[00:39:40] Lisa Hoashi Yeah well and I think this like circles back to kind of the very beginning point you mentioned about like where to start with networking and which is that reflection of like what do I want? Well, it's like when you get the opportunity, you also have to circle all the way back there and think like, does this align with my original desire or intention? And really check that, right? So that we're not being led astray just by opportunities. Yeah.
[00:40:05] Tina Sula And then I think everybody, like I said, wants to help. So if even in your sort of follow up, even if you could say things like, you know, you help bring me clarity or you know, I remember saying to someone as follow up, you confuse the heck out of me like our conversation. Like, I am so confused. You're I mean, because now I'm like, do I do this or do I do this or do I do that? And I remember sending like, I'm a you know, I write notes like I, you know, handwritten notes. And I remember getting the call from that person and saying, that is the most thoughtful card I've ever gotten. And I'm kind of like, really? Because I am confused over here and I talk and all these like, because it was real. And I think today's world people crave real. So it's okay to be real because when you're being real, you're also assessing that value alignment. Right. If someone were like, if that person would have responded to me with. Wow. You're like, weird and awkward. That's probably not a person. And I'm going to spend a lot of time and effort and energy trying to make a part of my circle, you know, a part of my community.
[00:41:18] Lisa Hoashi Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Tina. It has been such a pleasure to have you on the show. And you've left us with so much food for thought. So many different things to incorporate as we think about, you know, how to go about, like building these relationships. So thank you so much.
[00:41:35] Tina Sula Thank you so much for the opportunity. I really enjoyed our conversation and I look forward to coming on.
[00:41:40] Lisa Hoashi Yes. And we are definitely going to include your info in the show notes so people can be in touch with you on LinkedIn if they like, or check out your Coursera, which I highly recommend. Super. There are so many great ideas there too.
[00:41:53] Tina Sula Oh, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it. So big hug from Detroit, Michigan.
[00:41:59] Lisa Hoashi Thank you. Hey, everyone. That was so fun. Thanks for joining us today. Do you know someone who would also appreciate the advice and ideas from today's show? Take a minute right now to send it along to them. We would love it if you'd share these episodes of LEEP Like Me with friends, family and your colleagues. Until next time, be bold and take good care.